Mosque

Alright... it's time for a mosque-at-ground-zero discussion. All in favor? All opposed?

I think they should build it. If they own the land, they're allowed to put a building on it, end of discussion. Just because some terrorists who HAPPENED to be the same religion as they are killed a lot of people in a nearby area, they shouldn't have to take responsibility for it. People should not stereotype others, or lump people into groups just because they happen to be the same religion.
A lot of people I have talked about this to have brought up the families of 9/11 victims being offended. I understand their feelings, but they should not direct those feelings at innocent people. I have seen NO evidence that the people who want to build this mosque are terrorists, or that they have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. The only reason I can think of that the victims' families would not want the mosque there is if they were acting the same way people acted during WWII and the "kill all the Jape" nonsense, etc. This mindset is horribly bigoted, and if that is these people's reason for feeling 'offended', then I don't think those feelings have a right to be honored. They have a right to be sad. They have a right to be angry. But they do not have a right to take out their feelings on innocent people who just happen to practice the same religion that a few crazy terrorists claimed to believe in.

You know I told your father I believed they shouldn't put it so close but have since changed my mind. At least in part because I saw an article featuring several family members of 9/11 victims who were arguing FOR the mosque. And I want to say that many Muslims are really NOT the same religion as the terrorists - I know many who would call themselves Christian who really don't believe the same thing as some Christian fundamentalists - their names/labels seem the same but they are quite different in behavior, beliefs, etc.

Labeling that in general is a little odd.

So my dad thinks that if they decided to build it somewhere else, it would be better because there would be less controversy and it would make them appear more sensitive.

I think he might be right, they might appear more sensitive. For me it's the old question about how much you push for change and how much you hope people will change naturally with education and without "conflict." I think it varies with each situation - he might be right that the effect here might be one of polarization rather than increased tolerance. So if I agree with that aspect of your father's argument should we say I think that while building so close might be morally right it's not psychologically right? (Right now I'm having trouble tolerating the idiot who wants to burn the Koran.)

I'm attempting to ignore the extreme idiots like that one...
The only reason I don't agree with what my dad says is because he says it in a way that sounds like "I'm an outside observer from Casper, Wy, but I still know what the decent thing for YOU to do would be even though I have nothing to do with it." If I were those people, yes, I might decide that it would be more diplomatic to build it further away from Ground Zero. However, I can recognize that as I can't know the whole story from their POV, I should only decide how to react to their decision to build it there.
I also don't want to cut the bigots any slack... I do know that not everyone who opposes the mosque is a bigot, but some of them (unfortunately) are. It may be too "teenager-ly" of me, but my first instinct is that I want them to build it right IN Ground Zero and make the bigots suck it up and deal with it

We need teenager-ly responses. It's why God made teenagers.

God made water and amino acids. He never suspected they would eventually lead to the existence of teenagers.

Oh I think maybe teenagers were her goal.

She must be pretty delusional... unless her goal was Alpha Wolf...

And you know what makes me mad? HE HASN'T READ THE QURAN!!!!! HE SAID SO HIMSELF!!!! URRRGGHHH!!!!!
Also, we keep repeating history. Like, exactly. And nobody's bothered to try and change it. It's like a sinusoidal function or something...

I think this entire problem has arisen because we were insufferable biased bigots. (that is kind of repetetive, but whatever.) Like motherly unit said, the terrorists who caused 9/11 were not really the same religion as the rest of the Islam group. According to Mrs. Stutheit however, the Islams believe that if you dont support their religion, your an infidel, and deserve to die. Now, of course, we wont be belittling, but how exactly is that different than the radical christians? For instance, if they had been burning the Bible in the middle east, there would be those of us who wanted to send in 50 nuclear warstrikes, and blast them off the face of the earth.

This entire problem arises from us not being willing to open up to hte rest of the world. Im not saying that if we had embraced the terrorists who had come to kill us, that it would be better, but we're just being fools when it comes to this. It takes a bigger person to move on, over their grudges, than it does to hold grudges and be a fool. these faces are awesome.

Yeah... I know this is more than a little off topic, but it seems like nationalism is only okay if you're a small country and you're hopelessly oppressed.

And yes, these are rather amazing....

You two make me laugh. They found 2 packages today that represent a "credible" terrorist threat. So be nice, but be vigilant. The really sad part is that they were addressed to 2 synagogues in Chicago.

My friend showed me that in class yesterday (I'm the "Jew"... and that's funny because it didn't come about because my dad is (was?) Jewish, but because I ate hummus).

I think terrorists get too much attention... as we also talked about yesterday in Erich's class, we've been looking for a common enemy since the Cold War ended.

It kind of reminds me of a thing I heard on the Today Show--

-Remeber the old saying--"If a tree falls in the forest, and doesn't hit an American, did the tree really fall?"
-Well, what if it did hit an American?
-Than the whole fricking forest is accountable, and it is going DOWN.


I do agree with you--first it was the Communist, now it's Terrorrism.

These are very amazing

Yes though, and it's not just terrorism: No matter how much everyone tries to deny it, religion and race play a lot into many Americans' opinions. And of course Israel just plays off it; every time someone criticizes Israel, they or their supporters pull the Holocaust card. It's getting rather annoying! And don't even get me started on Americans (read: Wyomingans) and Islam...