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    Randomness of Godly stuff

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    jlnaginey

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    Join date : 2010-08-23

    Re: Randomness of Godly stuff

    Post  jlnaginey on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:23 pm

    Yeah I think so. The goal is pretty general though, both for individuals and for the whole - she uses the word "conatus" which is apparently from Spinoza and means something like the drive to fully actualize. I keep returning in my head to Tolkien and his idea that God is like a music composer who creates the general theme within which we all get to add our harmonies (or disharmonies). I think my panpsychist philosopher might say that God IS the music though rather than that s/he created it.
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    Dracotorix
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    Re: Randomness of Godly stuff

    Post  Dracotorix on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:50 pm

    Yay for theological dissonance!

    And yes, God would be the music, not the composer. Each individual is an instrument. Actually, we're the musicians... if we were the instruments there would be no free will, and each of us would be being controlled by a ghost... but you get the picture.

    ...and that means God changes! Every time a person dies, or is born, or changes, or does something, or thinks something, the identity/nature/shape/key/tone/etc. of God is slightly altered.

    jlnaginey

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    Re: Randomness of Godly stuff

    Post  jlnaginey on Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:21 pm

    Yes! I absolutely agree with you (is this a first?). God does change and therefore the "purpose" of our life is to increase God's knowledge (you), beauty (me), complexity, goodness, whatever - to be thoughtful about how we create God.

    On the other hand (our agreement was certainly short-lived), I kind of think we have to give God some free will. I think there is a soul of the world or something - God - that is the substance (or something) that changes but can also make some decisions - can at least communicate with us somehow - do you believe at all in anything at all happening "for a reason"?

    And btw I think if God changes then the soul has to change too. Otherwise I think it can't be unique to individuals and I think that's the whole point (which does not mean inequal - just different).
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    Dracotorix
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    Re: Randomness of Godly stuff

    Post  Dracotorix on Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:58 pm

    You absolutely agree with me? affraid
    The scary thing about this is that we can no longer use God as a reference frame. Traditionally, God is used as something for people to check themselves against, to make sure they are still on the right track as far as the traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" are concerned. This model forces people to check themselves against their OWN system of beliefs and ethics-- God is merely a reflection of where the group is as a whole. This means we have a lot more responsibility than we thought, which could scare some people, but it means we have to learn to put confidence in out own beliefs while still being willing to change them as discoveries and circumstances change. Another challenge...

    Oh good. That agreeing thing was making me nervous.
    Why would God, as we are describing it (yes, it), need free will? Why would it need to communicate with us? I think the only things that happen for 'reasons' are things that we do for our own reasons. Otherwise how is it possible for God to not take sides? Or defy the laws of nature? Or change history?

    Wait, what? Why does the soul have to change is God changes?
    It is unique to individuals, but I think that's because of their identity or their specific "spiritual make-up" (I'm still liking the "Great Blue Yonder" idea of souls, but that doesn't really fit with my previous arguments so I won't use it) and the combination of which souls are alive at any given point in time is a large factor in determining what God is like at that time. However, I still don't think the individual souls are affected.
    Mostly, or at least partially, because it seems impossible to avoid being subjective about change (any change).

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